(The Truth of Heaven and Hell)
Many Christians (Humans) think this does happens to all godly/good Humans when they die: and they think The Bible clearly says this is what happens to them too. But in reality, the Bible tells quite a different story about this Traditional heavenly paradise called “heaven”. But as we have learned Jesus himself clearly says humans do not nor they cannot go to this paradise called the third heaven and Peter even says loyal humans that have already died are not in heaven! However, there seems to be some Bible verses that contradict all this and seems to say that at least some humans do go to heaven upon death. Is this a Biblical contradiction to what Jesus and Peter said or is there something we are misunderstanding about these verses? Let’s take a closer look at these verses to find out for sure:
Heaven contradictions section guide:
(Can be used to 'bookmark' a section of this article and come back to a specific section later)
Solomon: 'Human spirits returning to God?’
The transfiguration: Moses and Elijah come down from heaven?
Jesus: “I will take you to be with me”
The repenting thief on the cross
Saints raised from the dead: As immortal souls and then went to heaven?
Paul: “to be away from the body is to be present with the lord”
Humans being taken to heaven
One of the first biggest contradictions to Jesus and Peter’s statement is usually the mysterious disappearance of Enoch and Elijah to heaven:
Enoch and Elijah were two major prophets of God who tried to warn sinful human beings of their generation of God’s wrath on their sin. But one day both of these men suddenly were taken away from where they were to heaven by God.
Genesis 5:21-24
“...Enoch walked with God three hundred years,…Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.”
2 Kings 2:11
“As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.”
Enoch and Elijah are the only two cases known where humans were taken away from Earth up into Heaven. What happened to them after they were taken is really a mystery: the Bible really does not say any more about these men after that. However, many think that once they were taken by God, they were taken to the third heaven (paradise) to be with him and his angels for their great service. And many think once they were taken to this place their bodies became immortal in some way and they never died and are still alive in heaven today.
As far as Enoch goes, Paul does say he did not see death and was not found anymore:
Hebrews 11:5
“...Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death,… and was not found, because God had taken him…”
Does this mean all loyal humans do go to the third heaven after all?
Not exactly, even if Enoch and Elijah were taken to third heaven this would not necessarily mean all loyal humans after death automatically go there too (Remember, King David never went to the third heaven as told by Peter). It would only mean Enoch and Elijah (and any other possible humans like them) who were physically taken from Earth why they were still alive in their physical bodies (as opposed to their soul being taken there after their death) this would be special cases only for living humans taken to the third heaven, not an example for the rest of loyal humans who have died.
But, even if just Enoch and Elijah were the only two humans to ever go into the third heaven this would still be a contradiction to Jesus’s statement:
That no human (not even one!) has ever gone to the third heaven!
So how is it possible that Enoch and Elijah went to heaven? This would be a massive contradiction to Jesus’s statement! To find out for sure, lets take a closer look at what exactly happened to these two men:
Enoch
The story of Enoch can be found in Genesis 5, Enoch was a prophet to the sinful humans of his generation before the flood of Noah (in fact he would be the ancestor of Noah; through his first son Methuselah).
Genesis 5:21-24
“Enoch lived sixty-five (65) years, and had Methuselah. After he had Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years (300), and had sons and daughters…And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.”
In this short story, it says Enoch obeyed and followed God for over three-hundred years before God took him away. Over 2,000 years later, the apostle Paul said this about Enoch being taken away:
Hebrews 11:5
“By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, and was not found, because God had taken him...”
So, his taking away had something to do with keeping him from dying and because God took him away Enoch was no longer found by other humans. Many say this means he was taken to the third heaven alive (was not on The Planet Earth anymore) where he became immortal/a soul where he would live forever and never die.
Is this really what the Bible is telling us about Enoch?
Notice that neither of these verses says he was taken to the third heaven (or any heaven for that matter), it just says he was simply “taken away from death” and “not found any more.”
To where?
The Bible simply does not say, but Hebrews does say he was taken away and didn’t experience death. Because of this, many conclude this must mean that Enoch was made immortal by being turned into a spirit/soul without dying by being taken to the third heaven, even though these two verses don’t directly say that.
While this seems to be the only reasonable explanation to why Enoch didn’t experience death, later in this chapter, we come to a statement that completely contradicts that idea and makes it impossible for Enoch to be immortal in the third heaven:
Paul eventually says (along with the rest of the people he was taking about before this statement) that Enoch does eventually die along with the rest of these people:
Hebrews 11:13
“All these people (all the people mentioned earlier: including Enoch) were still living by faith when they died.”
All of these loyal humans mentioned died: This means Enoch died too!
Paul continues to say that none of these humans have receive God’s promises:
Hebrews 11:13-39
“They did not receive the things promised;…they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance,…none of them received what had been promised,…”
But What are the things promised? Well one of those promises is eternal life:
Titus 1:2
“ ...eternal life, which God,…promised before the beginning of time,…”
So none of these humans of faith received immortality, so therefore this means, Enoch did not receive immortality by going to the third heaven.
Then what exactly happened to Enoch for him to avoid death?
Well, it's really unknown what is meant by Enoch “Avoiding death” since neither Paul nor the original story does not really give specific details about it, but it could mean:
Enoch was being threatened by a certain situation with death (was going to be killed by something) so to save him from being killed, God took him away from the situation somewhere else where he could never be found again.
Or
Maybe this “death” being talked about, is the death in going to Gehenna Hell (the lake of fire) to be burnt up.
Revelation 20:14
“...The lake of fire is…death.”
In this case, Enoch was saved from this death like all loyal humans who trust in God: Through his faith. So, this movement of Enoch from this death was spiritual: God moved him spiritually from the sinful world around him to his ways and kingdom. (Though this scenario seems far less likely because Enoch seems to be described as physically being gone from a certain area)
Something else to consider is that Enoch was only said to live 365 years in the original story:
Genesis 5:21-24
“Enoch lived sixty-five [65] years, and had Methuselah. After he had Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years (300),…Altogether, Enoch lived a total of three hundred and sixty-five years(365)…”
He lived a total of 365 years! The term “Altogether” and “a total of” is referring to the total lifespan of a human being: because the same phrase is used to describe the total amount of years a human lived right before dying:
Genesis 5:5
"Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died."
Genesis 5:8
“Altogether, Seth lived a total of 912 years, and then he died.”
Genesis 5:11
“Altogether, Enosh lived a total of 905 years, and then he died.”
If Enoch was made immortal, then his total years would have been much longer (in fact never-ending).
However, it’s also important to note at the same time, that this passage summarizing how long he lived is different than the rest in this chapter. Instead of immediately saying “and then he died”, like all the other passages, it then says he was no longer found because he was gone:
Genesis 5:22-24
“…Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years (365). And Enoch walked with God; and [then] he was not, for God took him.”
However, this still does not mean Enoch never died because he became immortal/a soul and went to the third heaven. It just means when he was 365 years old, that he was taken away somewhere else; where he lost contact with other humans and therefore nothing else was known about him past this age.
All information about Enoch’s condition and whereabouts became unknown at this point.
The truth is, Enoch’s taking away by God and not seeing death did not mean he was made immortal by going to the third heaven; Instead, it most likely meant, Enoch was saved from some type of situation that was going to kill him and was then most likely taken somewhere else safer on the earth, where he could no longer be found.
No matter what truly happened to Enoch, on thing is made pretty clear by Paul in Hebrews: That Enoch was no different than any of the other loyal humans of faith: he died without receiving eternal life like all the others!
Elijah
About 3,000 years after Enoch’s story, there was another strange case of God transporting a human somewhere else: this happened to another prophet of God named Elijah.
his story is in 2 Kings 2 where the prophet is talking with his servant:
2 Kings 2:11
“...Then it happened, as they (Elijah and Elisha) continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.”
So, we read in this passage that he was being taken away to a specific place: heaven! But wait, this is a contradiction by Jesus who said that no man has ever gone to heaven! So, how is this possible? Is this proof that there is at least one human in the third heaven?
Remember: There's More than one heaven
They key to this is to realize there is more than one heaven: specifically, there are three heavens.
A Little while after Elijah was taken away, the other prophets formed a search party to go find him: believing that the whirlwind dropped him off on a mountain or in a valley somewhere in the local area:
2 Kings 2:16
“we your servants have fifty able men. Let them go and look for your master. Perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has picked him up and set him down on some mountain or in some valley.”
The prophets did not think he was transported to the third or second heaven away from Earth somehow or even that he somehow stayed in the first heaven forever; rather they believed he would eventually be put back down somewhere on Earth.
They went to search for him all around the area for three whole days but could not find him.
2 Kings 2:17
“...And they sent fifty men, who searched for three days but did not find him.”
He was completely gone!
It is well known by many Christians/Bible Scholars that Elijah was taken to heaven and no longer could be found (in a similar way Enoch was). But what is not so well know is that around 5-11 years after Elijah was taken away the King of Judah was sent a letter from this same Elijah! [1]
2 Chronicles 21:12-14
“Jehoram received a letter from Elijah the prophet, which said:
‘This is what the Lord, the God of your father David, says: ‘You have not followed the ways of your father Jehoshaphat or of Asa king of Judah. But you have followed the ways of the kings of Israel, and you have led Judah and the people of Jerusalem to prostitute themselves, just as the house of Ahab did…’’ ”
How is this possible? Didn’t Elijah disappear off the face of the planet to go to the third heaven like so many people say? There is no evidence that God allowed Elijah to write a message from Heaven and send it down to Earth, but rather it's far more likely that he was still living somewhere else on the Earth and so sent this message from there.
So, this completely defeats the assumption that Elijah was brought to the third heaven and was made immortal; the truth seems to be that Elijah was just taken up into the sky to then be set down in another location on Earth to live: Probably far away from his original home to live out the rest of his life until he did finally die.
God’s taking away of both Enoch and Elijah is no proof whatsoever, that all loyal human’s souls go to the third heaven after death: even if these two men of God were taken to heaven. But Enoch and Elijah themselves never went to the third heaven: Instead, they were taken away from a certain area on Earth to another area where they could no longer be found by those who knew them. From this new area, they continued to live their mortal human lives until they died!
So, Enoch and Elijah are not proof that humans go to the third heaven.
Solomon: 'Human spirits return to God (in Heaven)'
In Ecclesiastes 12, when poetically refereeing to a Human’s death, Solomon says something very interesting:
Ecclesiastes 12:7
“The dust (the human body is made of: as covered before in the first article) returns to the ground it came from (decomposes), and the spirit returns to God who gave it.”
He says when the human body dies, the spirit does not stay with the decomposing body; it goes back to God. Since God lives in the third heaven, is this saying human spirits/souls really do go to the third heaven after death? Why it might seem like the human soul is described as going to heaven here, this cannot be the case. Because this clearly contradicts Jesus’s statement that no human has gone to heaven: if the spirit of a human was considered the same as the soul/consciousness of a human and this had been happening since Adam and Eve to every human that had died, then this would mean all humans get to go to heaven! Also, notice God receiving the human’s spirit has nothing to do with how “good” they were or how “loyal” they were to him in their lifetime: this means both the spirit of an evil, cruel, sin-loving human and the spirit of a God-loving righteous human both get to go to heaven at death! So, even the most rebellious evil Humans in history, no matter how bad they were or how many awful things they had done, would still get the reward of going to heaven at death: this makes no sense whatsoever! If all humans get the reward of going to heaven instantly when they die what is the point of a fiery punishment to burn up wicked humans in hell? Also, if all human’s souls have been going to heaven, then why did Peter say that King David still has not gone to heaven over 1,000 years after his death?
The answer is Human spirits are not exactly the human’s soul/consciousness; the spirit is a non-living part of a human that was given by God at their creation.
whenever directly from God right at their creation, like Adam:
Genesis 2:7
“...the Lord God formed a man [Human male] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath(Spirit) of life,…”
Or, like the rest of humanity; formed in their mother's womb:
Zechariah 12:1
“The Lord,…who forms the human spirit within a person,…”
When a human dies, however, their decomposing body no longer needs the spirit, so God simply takes it back, this is shown all throughout the Bible when humans die (as known in the King James version as 'giving up the ghost'):
Genesis 25:8 (KJV)
“Then Abraham gave up the ghost (Spirit), and died in a good old age,”
Genesis 35:29 (KJV)
“And Isaac gave up the ghost(Spirit), and died,…”
Jeremiah 15:9 (KJV)
“...she hath given up the ghost(Spirit);…”
Job 11:20 (KJV)
“...they shall not escape, and their hope shall be as the giving up of the ghost (Spirit).”
Lamentations 1:19 (KJV)
“I called for my lovers, but they deceived me: my priests and mine elders gave up the ghost (Spirit) in the city,…”
(Notice, none of this depends on wherever the human was good or bad in their life).
The same thing is said by Solomon’s father, King David:
Psalm 146:4
“...When their spirit departs, they return to the ground (their body decomposes);…”
Notice David says the humans that have died are considered separate from their spirit: it’s their spirit that is leaving them, but it’s not they themselves! They themselves as described as decomposing; directly connecting the actual human with their physical body rather than their departing spirit!
Whatever this spirit exactly is, it’s definitely not the actual human themselves in soul/spirit form, but rather it’s like a part of a human. This means, if a human’s spirit goes to heaven, it does not mean they themselves go there.
The point of this verse is this: God gave all humans, both righteous and wicked, their own spirit at their conception/birth, but when they die, it’s no longer needed by this human anymore, so it’s returned back to God.
This happens to all humans, regardless how they acted or what they did in their physical life. No matter if the spirit was from a loyal Israelite who followed God and kept his laws and judgments, or from a pagan priest worshiping many false Gods and committing horrible sinful acts. All human spirits go back to God at death. So, this is not proof that loyal human spirits/souls go to heaven at death.
The transfiguration:
Moses and Elijah come down from heaven?
Many say the transfiguration of Jesus is proof that Moses and Elijah were in heaven and came down to Jesus and spoke with him at his transfiguration, is this true?
The story is found in Matthew 17 where Jesus takes some of the disciples to see the event on a mountain:
Matthew 17:1-9
“After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus….”
So, we see Moses and Elijah did appear, all of a sudden, and talked with Jesus: is this proof that they were in heaven all along, and is this proof that human souls go to the third heaven after death? If this is true then this would contradict Jesus’s own statement that no human has gone to the third heaven, since Moses and Elijah are humans, they could not have been in heaven this whole time. There must be another explanation, then:
What is a Transfiguration?
It says in this passage he was “transfigured” but what does this mean?
This word is defined as “a changing of an outward appearance” [2] or As Luke 9:29 puts it “The appearance of His face was altered.”
This means that, all of a sudden, Jesus’s physical features were changed: specifically, his face and clothes (his whole body) instantly became very bright.
Notice the features of Jesus during his change are almost exactly like how John describes Jesus in Revelation 1, many years later after Jesus had gone to heaven:
Revelation 1:12-17
“I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw… someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters…His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead.”
This is what he looked like after he went to heaven! (Long after the transfiguration took place). So, what Jesus looked like in the transfiguration was not necessarily happening right at that moment but was rather showing what he WAS going to look like, specifically after he went to heaven (what John saw later).
This is a strong hint that him talking to Moses and Elijah was also not happening right at that moment but was more like a vision of a future event when they would be taking with him like that one day!
And notice the rest of what they see does “act” like a vision: a bright cloud covers them, God immediately talks to them, and then Moses and Elijah just disappear!
Matthew 17:4-8
“Peter said to Jesus, ‘Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.’ While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, ‘This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!’ When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. But Jesus came and touched them. ‘Get up,’ he said. ‘Don’t be afraid.’ When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.”
After they see Jesus’s transfiguration, he then tells them on their way down the mountain that what they saw was indeed a vision!
Matthew 17:9
“As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, ‘Don’t tell anyone what you have seen(the term “what you have seen” in the original Greek, is “ὅραμα”(hor'-am-ah) meaning a vision! [3] ),...’”
This same word is also used to describe the blanket coming down from heaven that Peter saw, and the Macedonian man Paul saw:
Acts 11:5-7
“I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was….”
Acts 16:9-10
“During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, ‘Come over to Macedonia and help us.’ “[3]
Now does all this mean that Peter really did see a blanket with meat come down from heaven (the sky)? And does this mean there is actually a blanket of meat in the third heaven since he saw it coming down? And does this mean since Paul saw a Macedonian man taking to him, there was an actual Macedonian talking to him at that moment and does that mean there is also a Macedonian man in the third heaven?
The logical answer is NO! They did not really see these things; they were like spiritual mirages that were shown to demonstrate a specific point:
Peter realized this vision was showing him that he should not call what is clean, unclean (in this case Gentiles: or non-Jews):
Acts 10:28
" God has shown me that I should not call anyone (gentiles: non-Jews) impure or unclean."
And Paul realized the vision was God’s way of saying he needed to go preach the gospel to the Macedonians:
Acts 16:9-10
"After Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once to leave for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.”
So, if these visions had a meaning, then what was the meaning of Jesus’s transfiguration?
Earlier Jesus had promised that some of his disciples would see Jesus returning back to earth to be in his new kingdom before they died:
Matthew 16:28
“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man (Jesus) coming in his kingdom (return to Earth).”
(Also said in Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27)
So, Jesus promised that some of his disciples would not die until they saw Jesus’s return in his new earthly kingdom.
Now this did not happen anywhere in the time Jesus was on earth (in fact it still hasn’t happened, and all the disciples have long been dead). So, what happened?
Since he would not return and set up his kingdom in their lifetime, he showed three of his disciples (that was Peter, James, and John) a vision of the future when Jesus does come back to Earth. He offered them a glimpse of what he would look like when he returned:
Which we see he would be very bright, and saints of the past would be there like Moses and Elijah!
This vision then was a small glimpse of the future kingdom of Jesus once he returned to Earth an event which is still future today!
This vision later gave the disciples that saw it courage to tell the good news about Jesus, as Peter says:
2 Peter 1:16-18
“For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying,
(Matthew 17:6)
‘This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.’
We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.”
So, the whole point of this vision was to show the future: it is not proof that Moses and Elijah came down from the third heaven to talk to Jesus but rather is a future image of them one day talking to Jesus in this new kingdom! So, the transfiguration is not proof that Moses and Elijah went to the third heaven after death.
Jesus: “I will take you to be with me”
When the disciples are having the last supper right before Jesus is crucified, Jesus says something profound about his “father’s house”:
John 14:2-3
“My Father’s house…I am going there to prepare a place for you…And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”
Was he talking about taking them to the third heaven to be with him there after their deaths? Wouldn’t this contradict his statement before that no human has ever gone to the third heaven? Let’s look at this verse in more detail to find out more:
First, he was going to his father's house to prepare the place:
His father’s house was located where he was returning to, and that was clearly the third heaven: So, this place is in the third heaven!
John 14:2-3
“My Father’s house…I am going there…”
John 13:3
“…Jesus knew that…he had come from God and was returning to God(in the third heaven);…”
But notice, he was not going to bring them there instantly to this place: when he got back to the third heaven, he first had to prepare a place for them to stay and once it was finished, he then had to return to Earth and get them:
John 14:2
“…I am going there to prepare a place for you…And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."
This taking back to this place only happens when Jesus gets finished building and returns (comes back) to earth to get his disciples after all this, he will then take them to this place! This is clearly the second coming of Jesus: this still has not happened yet! So therefore, the disciples have still not been taken to this place (the third heaven) almost 2,000 years later after Jesus promised them this!
This fits with Jesus's statement; that no human has gone to the third heaven. In fact, right before Jesus talked about this subject in John 14 Jesus said to them before in John 13 that they could not go where he was about to go (that is the third heaven):
John 13:33
“My children, I will be with you only a little longer… Where I am going, you cannot come.”
The only way Jesus told them they could go was if he came back and got them (in his second coming) which he assured them this would happen! Since Jesus has not returned back to earth yet to get them, we can conclude they still have not gone to the third heaven (just like what Peter said about King David.) therefore Jesus's statement is no proof that the disciples (or any loyal human souls) go to the third heaven at death, if anything it disproves that any human soul has ever gone to the third heaven since this has not happened yet!
The repenting thief on the cross
There is another contradiction in Luke about the repenting thief on the cross: A thief was being crucified beside Jesus, but he believed Jesus was the Messiah. For his faith in him, Jesus said he would join him in paradise (the third heaven) after they both died:
Luke 23:42-43
“Then he (the thief) said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ Jesus answered him, ‘Truly I tell you; today you will be with me in paradise.”
Many think Jesus here was talking about the thief going to the third heaven with him after they both died (after all, the third heaven is called paradise:
2 Corinthians 12:2-3
“...the third heaven….paradise…”)
But doesn’t this contradict Jesus’s own statement? Did Jesus finally let a human join him in the third heaven after his death? And does all this mean this is where all loyal human’s souls go to now after death?
Why, this at first, might seem like the case; there is a massive contradiction with this statement that is often overlooked. After Jesus died, he did NOT go to Heaven (paradise) with the thief. Because other verses (even a verse Jesus said about himself) say he didn’t go to heaven, but to HELL:
Acts 2:24-27
“…David said about him(Jesus: the Messiah):
(Psalm 16:11)
‘...you will not abandon…[him]…to the realm of the dead (Hades),…’ ‘ ”
Matthew 12:40
“For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth(That is Sheol/Hades).”
As covered before in “The Biblical Hell” article, “Hades” is the Greek New Testament version of the Old Testament Hebrew word “Sheol”: both referring to the same place, which is the physical grave as it's clarified in Corinthians:
1 Corinthians 15:3-4
“Christ died…and..[then]..He was buried(in Hades: the grave), and..[then]..He rose again on the third day according to the Scriptures”
Both these verses say he did not go to heaven (paradise) once he died! Because both confirm he went to the grave (Sheol) after he died and stayed there three whole days and nights!
But there is usually an easy fix to this contradiction: Sure, Jesus’s body was in the grave (or tomb), but surely his soul, that very day, went back to heaven to be with the thief before his body was brought back to life, right?
But this cannot be the case either, because after these three days when he was brought back to physical life, he said he still had not returned to God in heaven those three days he was dead:
John 20:17
“Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father’.”
He had not yet been to paradise with the dead thief (the third heaven), even after three days: he only went back to the third heaven 40 days after coming back to life!
Acts 1:3
“After his suffering(and coming back to life),…He appeared to them over a period of forty days…”
He finally went to the third heaven (paradise) after 40 days:
Mark 16:19
“After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them (His followers for 40 days), he was taken up into heaven…”
This means if the thief on the cross went to heaven on the day he died, he must have went to heaven before Jesus, and had to wait 43 days for him to join him there!
Basically, Jesus was not in heaven/could not be in heaven with him the very day he died, but instead it was at least 43 days later before he joined him!
If he was instantly supposed to go to heaven to be with the thief in paradise, like he seems to say, he was really off!
This either means Jesus lied to him or we are really misunderstanding something here!
A closer look at the subject:
On a closer inspection of what was exactly being talked about between the thief and Jesus, the subject was NOT about Jesus returning to the third heaven, it was about Jesus “coming into his kingdom”:
Luke 23:42
“Then he[the thief] said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’.”
Many think the thief was refereeing to Jesus returning back to the third heaven (his kingdom) but this is not what the kingdom means with context with the rest of the Bible. The word “Kingdom” almost always refers to “the kingdom of heaven”, and as covered in the last article “The Biblical Heaven”, this is not refereeing to the third heaven, but rather is referring to a real physical nation on Earth (Even though the third heaven is described as paradise, this future kingdom could also be described as paradise)! This is strongly hinted in how the thief might had said it in another way:
Other translations say that this man said “remember me when you come in your kingly power”[4]
Jesus did not come in his kingly power in his first coming, but he certainly will in his second coming! Along with all this, this thief (like most Jews of this time) knew that the prophecies stated that the Messiah would come and form/rule his kingdom since he was obviously not doing this now (he was being killed) so the thief believed this to be in the future someday and somehow!
Considering all this, the thief was not talking about the third heaven, he was talking about Jesus’s kingdom at his return to Earth: that is the second coming of Jesus, and this once again has not happened yet!
So, we have to take note, they're not talking about the third heaven necessarily, they are instead talking about Jesus’s return to Earth to set up his physical kingdom.
This was the subject when Jesus makes this promise: He was comforting this thief of faith: assuring him that he would not have to remember him, because he would definitely be with him in his new future kingdom with him!
But at the same time, this would not/could not happen on this very day because Jesus would not be returning to earth that very day to set up his kingdom with the thief. He was going to die and be buried that day and stay that way for three whole days! Even after he was brought back to life; 43 days later, he still had not returned to set up his kingdom. And after leaving earth almost 2,000 years later, he has still not returned and set up his kingdom with the thief! That means almost 730,043 days has passed since Jesus promised this man, he would be in new kingdom with him that day [5]! Something is definitely wrong here!
Closer look at Jesus’s promise:
At first glance, their seems to be no way to solve this contradiction: Jesus clearly promises this thief that he would be with him, in his kingdom that very day. So, there seems to be no answer to this contradiction: however, there is something to consider here that many Christians/Biblical scholars are not aware of.
While many Christians/Biblical scholars know that the New Testament was originally translated into English from Greek, many might not know that this Greek did not originally have punctuation (or even spaces between words) [6].
So, this verse would look like this in the original Greek writing:
Luke 23:43 (Codex Sinaiticus)
“τηβαϲιλιαϲουκαιειπεναυτωαμηνλεγωϲοιϲημερονμετεμουεϲηεντωπαραδιϲω”[6]
In English, this would literally be the translated grammatical equivalent:
“jesusansweredhimtrulyItellyoutodayyouwillbewithmeinparadise”
Hard to read, right?
Since the original Greek did not generally have commas and many punctuation marks, these were added later in newer translations of the New Testament by translators to make the original text much easier to read. While many of these punctuation marks were very accurate to the original meaning of the Greek text one in paticlular is punctated at the wrong place; and it happens to be this verse!
Specifically, by putting the comma between “you” and “today” translators violated an ancient Greek grammar rule: the word “today” does not belong to the second clause (which is “you will be with me in paradise.”) like the comma suggest it does. According to the original Greek grammar rules “today” really belongs with the former clause (which is “Truly I tell you…”)[7].
So really, the comma belongs after the word today because “today” was originally apart of the first clause, so this verse should really be punctuated like this:
Luke 23:43
“Truly, I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”
This simple (and correct) fix changes the entire meaning of this sentence:
It goes from meaning Jesus promising him that he would be with him in his new kingdom that very day to telling him on that very day that he would (one day) be in his kingdom!
What this means is that on the day they were being crucified: Jesus promised the thief that he would be in the kingdom (paradise) with him. But he did not say when or how this would happen: just that one day it would happen!
This one little comma makes an entire world of difference in the meaning!
And it was true; he did promise to this thief on this very day before he died, that he would eventually be in his future kingdom with him, Even if that would not be for over a thousand years in the future. Though now it's been over 2,000 years since he made this promise, one day in the future when Jesus returns to Earth and forms his future kingdom it will happen!
So, even though this verse seems to be saying that the thief went to heaven instantly after death, with a little study on the subject in the rest of the Bible and knowledge of the original Greek grammar rules, it can be concluded that this is not what the text is saying at all: what it's really saying does not support the thief’s soul going to the third heaven. Therefore, this verse is not proof that humans go to heaven at death.
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man
The story of Lazarus and the Rich Man, like hell, is one of the biggest proofs that loyal human’s souls go to heaven after death in the entire Bible. Jesus tells a story of a rich man and a poor beggar named Lazarus. (For this study, we are going to now focus on Lazarus's story)
Luke 16:20
“...there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his (the rich man’s) gate,…”
As the story continues, Lazarus dies, but after his death, he goes to heaven.
Luke 16:22
“…So it was that the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom (heaven).”
Many Christians and Pastors for hundreds of years have used this story to show that loyal humans do go to heaven after death, is this true? Is this story of Lazarus going to heaven after his death proof that all human souls go to heaven after death: Even though it directly contradicts Jesus’s statement (and Peter’s too)?
Not at all! As covered in the "Hell Contradictions" article, this story is not necessarily meant to be taken literary: It's not necessarily a real story of what happens after someone dies but rather it is a story borrowed from a pharisee legend of the time to teach a specific lesson to the pharisees. Even still, let's examine Lazarus's story to see what exactly is going on with this loyal human after he dies:
After Lazarus dies, he is carried away by Angels:
Luke 16:10
“…So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels…”
Though this is mainly borrowed from what the pharisees believed happened to dead loyal human’s souls, it has a parallel to what will happen when Jesus comes back:
Matthew 24:31
“...the Son of Man (Jesus)...he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect (loyal humans) from the four winds (from all over the Earth),…”
However, notice even in this legend Lazarus does not even go to the third heaven: he goes to a place called “Abraham’s bosom”:
Luke 16:10
“…So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom…”
This is more proof that this story is mainly a retold pharisee legend: Because the pharisees believed that in Hades there was a paradise there called “Abraham’s bosom” where loyal humans went to (along with a fiery punishment) where Jews could meet their ancestor Abraham and be comforted by him:
Luke 16:9-30
“...the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom…The rich man…lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Abraham said,‘…Lazarus…he is comforted…’”
This has a parallel of loyal humans being comforted by God and receiving their reward after Jesus’s return:
Revelation 11:18
“...The time has come…for rewarding your servants…your people who revere your name,…”
Revelation 21:4
“(reference to Isaiah 25:8)
‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes (they will be comforted). There will be no more death’
or mourning or crying or pain,…”
It's also important to note, even though Abraham’s Bosom is considered a real place, that Lazarus was also literally in the bosom(chest) of Abraham: He was being hugged by him!
Luke 16:9-30
“…The rich man…lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom….”
This could be another parallel showing that loyal humans will meet with humans who have long been dead before their generation was ever born, such as a Jew, like Lazarus, meeting his ancestor, Abraham. This is very likely, because Abraham (along with many other saints of the ancient past, like Moses and Elijah) will be around with Jesus at his return to earth:
Matthew 8:11
“…Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom (at Jesus’s return)…”
While there are parallels to certain Biblical truths, there are no other passages in the Bible that directly mention a place in Sheol (what Hades is) called “Abraham’s Bosom” where loyal human souls go to after death to be with Abraham’s soul nor after Jesus mentioned this place in his story is this place ever mentioned again by any of the apostles!
This is because it is not Biblical; it is a Pharisee legend!
Despite all this, some Christian/people believe this is actually a literal place only directly mentioned in this story and that it perfectly explains why Jesus said no human has gone to heaven. So, despite the main evidence that this is not real but just a pharisee legend, could this still possibly be an actual place?
The answer from the evidence is pretty much a...
NO!
It still seems that this is just a pharisee myth therefore is does not prove human souls when to heaven or paradise in hell before Jesus's death
So, Jesus’s statement is absolutely true: no human has ever gone to heaven, at least before he died, but what about after he died and was brought back to life? Since he paid the price for human sin could loyal human souls finally go to heaven?
Saints raised from the dead: As immortal souls and then went to heaven?
The first case of humans going back to heaven is the verse talked about before: that is the saints near Jerusalem being brought back to life after Jesus dies.
Matthew 27:52-53
“...many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’…[came back to life]…and went into the holy city [Jerusalem] and appeared to many people.”
But we know from the last article two things:
These are not all the souls from paradise nor are they souls/ghosts: they are some loyal humans of the past that have come back to life in their physical bodies.
Nevertheless, does this mean that these people came back to life in new immortal bodies and went to heaven with Jesus? And is this proof that all humans get to now go to heaven?
First off, even if these people who were brought back to life all went to heaven does not necessarily mean all loyal humans at death go to heaven: It just means these humans who were brought back to life here went to heaven. Therefore, this really only proof (like Enoch and Elijah) that humans who are brought back in their physical body get to go to heaven. So, this is not necessary proof that all humans at death go to heaven.
But nevertheless, did these loyal humans go to heaven with Jesus?
Not enough information
There is not enough information to say if these people went to heaven like Jesus did but notice it does not really say that any of these people went to heaven with Jesus, it just says that they were brought back to life and went to Jerusalem, nothing else is said about them after this!
However…
Jesus is pictured as alone when going back to heaven:
Luke 24:50-51
“When he had led them (his disciples) out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.”
Acts 1:2-10
“until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen…After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes and a cloud hid them from their sight, they were looking very intently as he was going,…”
Notice nobody else was going up with Jesus! Jesus is the only one brought back to life that is going up into heaven, if there was at least one more person rising with him it would most likely be mentioned somewhere by the disciples!
Maybe then, they went to heaven in another location: Jerusalem. After all it does say they went to Jerusalem, so maybe they were taken up there?
Once again, you would think there would be mention of such people going to heaven in later books such as in Acts or Peter: because this would be a momentous occasion because no human had ever gone to heaven before this.
But we find the exact opposite, there is no mention of this. Even if the authors intentionally made no mention of this event, could it still have happened?
Even if the authors did not make no mention of this event, it still cannot be true!
Jesus is the firstborn/first fruit
The first problem with this, is the New Testament (especially after Jesus had gone to heaven) says Jesus is the firstborn/first fruit of God:
That basically means he was the first ever human to come back to life to immortality before any other humans:
1 Corinthians 15:20
“…Christ...[being]…raised from the dead, [is] the firstfruits of those who have…[died].”
1 Corinthians 15 23
“...each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then,…those who belong to him (Christians: all other humans come after him) .”
Colossians 1:15-18
“...The Son [Jesus]…he is…the firstborn from among the dead,…”
Revelation 1:5
“...Jesus Christ…the firstborn from the dead,…”
According to these verses, Jesus is the very first human to be brought back to life in an immortal body and go to heaven: by logic, this has to mean that no other humans could not have done this before Jesus nor are there still other first fruits besides Jesus at this time. Because, if there were other humans that were brought back to life in an immortal body and also went to heaven, then Jesus could not really be called the first fruit/firstborn ! So, if these loyal humans who were brought back to life at Jesus’s death/when he came back to life were also in immortal bodies and went to heaven, this would mean Jesus was not the first or the only human to have done this! This cannot be the case according to these verses.
All saints of the past to be glorified and rise to heaven TOGETHER
The book of Hebrews reveals only together will all other saints will loyal humans be glorified like Jesus:
Hebrews 11:39-40
“These (all the people mentioned in this chapter: which are all the famous loyal saints of the past) were all commended for their faith, yet [but] none of them received what had been promised (as cover earlier in this article: those promises include being given a new immortal body and being in Jesus’s new kingdom) , since [Because] God had planned something better for us [Jewish Christians] so that only together with us [Jewish Christians] would they [Past saints] be made perfect.”
Paul is saying here that all these loyal humans of the past: beginning with Able to a far more recent saint: John the Baptist were all great and loyal human beings of God BUT all died without receiving glory and honor like Jesus had. This was because God had a plan: this plan was to wait for future generations of loyal humans to be born (like this generation of loyal Jewish believers living around 51 A.D. Paul is writing to) so they could also revive this promise along with older generations: this would continue far beyond 51 A.D. until God had gotten all loyal humans he desired, then he would glorify all loyal humans of the past (and present) at the same time.
Only together will holy humans be glorified like Jesus was at his bringing back to life; and clearly according to other verses this happens at a very specific time:
when Jesus returns to Earth!
If some saints had already received their immortal bodies and already went to the third heaven, like Jesus did, then they would have already received their promises and not be with the rest of the holy humans who have not yet receive these promises! According to this verse, this cannot happen at an earlier time than Jesus’s second return! Therefore, we can conclude that no human has been glorified yet; because this event has not happened yet; it's still future. So how could these humans who came back to life be made immortal and go to heaven before anyone else?
The Answer, ultimately, seems to be no:
these loyal humans that were brought back to life were not made immortal nor did they go to heaven!
But how is this possible if they came back to life?
Many people conclude these people brought back to life from the dead were made immortal and went to heaven with Jesus, but that's not necessarily true:
Being raised from the dead here just means coming back to life in your original body! This type of miracle had happened before in both the Old and New Testaments:
(Such as the son of the widow in 1 Kings 17:19-24 and Lazarus in John 11:43-44)
In fact, this is why Paul, refereeing to the miracle of Jesus being brought back to life, ask this to his skeptical audience:
Acts 26:8
“Why should any of you consider it incredible[amazing] that God raises [brings to life] the dead?”
He asks this because he had done it before!
Like these people before them, they were brought back to life, but not made immortal! They were most likely brough back to life in their original bodies and they got to live again and went into Jerusalem before dying a natural death once again!
Therefore, these humans who were brought back to life could not have been raised from the dead as immortals like Jesus was, nor could they have gone to heaven: nothing like this is mentioned about these people! All that is mentioned is that they were raised back to physical life (like Lazarus was) after an earthquake and got to live again (most likely before dying again)!
The 2 Corinthians 12:2 man
Another less known case of a human reported to have gone to heaven, is in Corinthians, as stated by Paul:
2 Corinthians 12:2
“ I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven…”
Unlike Elijah and Enoch, it clearly says that this man went to heaven and specifically says he went to the third heaven where God is! So, we can’t say this is a misunderstanding that he went to the other two heavens. Of course, once again, this does not prove all human souls go to the third heaven after death; but did this single man really go to the third heaven? Did Jesus really allow a human to go into heaven after he left Earth?
So did this man really go to heaven? Did Jesus really allow a human to go to heaven after he left?
Out of the body or in the body?
It’s important to note that Paul also makes the statement we should pay attention to:
2 Corinthians 12:2
“ I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.”
Paul says even though he was called into the third heaven he never said it was physical. He did not know. This gives us a hint that even though he was called up it might not have physically taken into this third heaven, but might have been more like a vision of the third heaven similar to what John went through in Revelation:
Revelation 4:1-2
“After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, ‘Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.’ At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.”
John also says that he was called up into the third heaven, but he also says he “Was in the spirit” (meaning a spiritual vision from the Holy Spirit). Humans in the past have seen the third heaven in visions in the Bible before.
Like Ezekiel did in the Old Testament:
Ezekiel 1:25-28
“...And above…was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness with the appearance of a man high above it. Also from the appearance of His waist and upward I saw, as it were, the color of amber with the appearance of fire all around within it; and from the appearance of His waist and downward I saw, as it were, the appearance of fire with brightness all around. Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.”
This man could have just seen a vision of the third heaven (As Paul puts it, an “out of the body” experience) But ultimately, Paul did not know.
However, even though Paul did not necessarily know he says right before this account that this was a “vision” and “revelation of the Lord”:
2 Corinthians 12:1
“...I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.”
However, Seeing Jesus said that no human has ever physically gone to the third heaven and humans seem to only see the third heaven in visions, the overwhelming proof is this man, who was called to the third heaven, most likely saw the third heaven in a vision. This is further proven that this man came back to Earth, because he told his experience to other Christians afterwards:
2 Corinthians 12:3
“And I know that this man…was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things,… “
So this man’s experience is not proof either that a human physically went to heaven: it was far more likely that he just saw a vision of the third heaven which is not the same as actually going to the third heaven.
Paul: “to die is gain”
This famous statement comes from Philippians 1, when Paul said to the church of Philippi:
Philippians 1:21
“For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.”
Many think what Paul meant by this statement is that we gain heaven as our reward when we die (by getting to go to heaven to be with Jesus and be in paradise). Is this what Paul meant by this statement?
To find out what Paul means by this statement for sure, we need to know what Paul was taking about in this chapter and then Read the entire verse in this context:
When we do read the whole chapter, we find Paul was not necessarily talking about an eternal reward in heaven but rather spreading the gospel no matter what comes. He speaks of the benefit of physical suffering helping the gospel spread: and even in death if he does die because he lived a life in Christ, he gains the attention to the gospel when he becomes a martyr (that is a person who are murdered for a faith they believe in) [8]. This, in the context, is what Paul mainly meant by dying is to gain (the gain is spreading the gospel at the expense of his own life):
Philippians 1:20-21
“I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed (of the gospel) but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ (the gospel) will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death (being murdered). For (because) to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.”
So, in the actual context of what Paul was taking about: this term is not really about the reward of going to heaven after death, it's about how even in murder (death) the gospel is still spread and, in that sense, it is a gain for Jesus’s glory. This statement is not necessarily proof that humans go to heaven after death.
Paul: “to be away from the body is to be present with the lord”
Here is another famous statement in Paul’s writing, The passage is found in 2 Corinthians 5 where he states that to be dead (phrased as “away from the body”) is to automatically be with the Lord:
2 Corinthians 5:8
“We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
Many think what Paul is saying here is when Christians die, their soul/consciousness instantly leaves their body and goes to the third heaven to be with the lord. But is this really what Paul in saying in this statement?
It does seem this is what Paul is actually saying: that when you are dead, your soul becomes absent (leaves) from the body.
But we still need to take a deeper look at the context of the chapter to make sure this is what Paul meant by this:
If you look at the entire 5th chapter of this book, you will see that Paul was taking about the strong desire of wanting an immortal body: comparing the mortal body to a temporary tent that won’t last forever and the immortal body to a heavenly home built by God that will last forever.
He goes on to say the person inside the tent desires to receive the eternal house of God before the tent is destroyed (symbolic of the body getting ruined) and this person is left homeless (becomes naked: symbolic for suffering and dying). this is what the chapter is focused on: the good news of a future immortal body.
Considering this, Paul then talks about the only thing that separates Christians from their mortal and immortal bodies (as well as seeing Jesus): that is being alive (that he puts as being “at home in the body”) he puts it if they were to die (the way he puts it become “absent from the body”) they would be present with the Lord and have their immortal bodies!
2 Corinthians 5:6-10
“Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are a home in the body(alive) we are away from the Lord (not with Jesus). we live by faith not by sight (we hope for a better tomorrow not for what we have/see today). We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body(die), and to be present with the Lord (be with Jesus). so, we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body(alive) or away from it (dead),… ”
So Paul does seem to be saying that death has something to do with leaving the body and seeing Jesus: that sounds like the soul does leave the body to go to the third heaven to see Jesus and be immortal!
And Paul is definitely talking about dying when he says this, because back in Philippians right after the last verse covered, He talks about being in the body (alive) and being absent from the body (dead) and he even says he really wants to die to see Jesus and talks about how that will be much better for him than to remain alive:
Philippians 1:22-24
“ If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart (from the mortal body: by dying) and be with Christ (After dying), which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body (stay alive).”
And we know he is refereeing to death here because of the last verse (that is “for me to live is Christ and to die is gain.) is about gaining something at death: that means this former verse covered above was not just about even in death spreading the gospel but about a personal reward received after death as well: which Paul reveals to be seeing Jesus after death!
So, does this mean the soul’s of human Christians now go to heaven after death?
We have to remember this author Paul who wrote this verse also wrote many books, let's talk a look a what Paul has to say about being with Jesus after death:
According to the exact same person, dead Christians will be brought to Jesus by God:
1 Thessalonians 4:13
“Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who…[have died]…,…For…we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have…[died]…in him. “
But notice, this uniting with Jesus only happens when Jesus comes back to Earth:
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
“...According to the Lord’s word,… the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command,…we[Christians]…will be caught up together… in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever(after this event).”
There is no other mention of there being any other meeting with Jesus before this event somewhere in the third heaven anywhere in Paul’s writings. This is the only mention of Christians meeting Jesus to be with him forever and it's after a futuristic event!
All Paul says about the dead Christians, at this moment, is that their body is like a seed in the ground that is waiting for the day that its made immortal (that day is confirmed to be the day Jesus returns back to Earth in 1 Thessalonians)
1 Corinthians 15:42
“…the body that is sown (dies: usually being covered in a hole [the grave] like an actual seed) is perishable (mortal: in dying/decomposing) But it is…[then made]…imperishable (immortal no more death and decay!)…it is sown (dies) in a natural (mortal/decaying) body, it is…[made into]…a spiritual (immortal/indestructible) body.”
This is what Paul most likely means by seeing Jesus after he died: when his body (like all Christians at this time) is made immortal and are called to Jesus’s side when he returns. This is the reward he seems to be looking forward to after death, but it's important to see its clearly in the future on a specific day, it does not happen instantly as his soul parting from his body to go to the third heaven to be with Jesus there as he seems to be describing. But rather, he seems to be actually saying that this is his way to see Jesus by first dying (the seed being sown/being absent from the body) and then on this future day being transformed into an immortal body and finally seeing Jesus. But it important to realize it didn’t happen instantly after he died (became absent from the body) because Paul describes a body that dies before Jesus returns as “waiting” for this transformation. So, according to his own words, he is not right now with Jesus in the third heaven but rather his body is “waiting” for this day in the grave.
With this understanding, this is what Paul meant in the original verse:
We all want to be in our new immortal bodies where we don’t have to worry about sickness, being tormented, and most of all death. But we aren’t! we are still in our mortal bodies, and we are not with our savior Jesus Christ!
But what he was saying with the statement was WE WOULD LOVE TO be in our new bodies with Jesus in his kingdom right now. Not that WE WOULD when we died!
This is what Paul is saying in the context it is in: not that your soul literally becomes absent from your body, and you are with the lord in heaven. This is a fact alone we cannot solely base this statement Paul had said here.
The great multitude in heaven
In Revelation 7, while having a vision in (the third) heaven, John saw a multitude of humans worshiping God in front of his throne.
Revelation 7:9-10
“After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.”
What happened to these people? Does this prove that these people’s souls went to heaven? We need to read the context closer:
Revelation 7:9-10
“After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: ‘Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.’ ”
Remember this is in Revelation: a book full of symbolism. Just because John saw in his vision some people in heaven does not mean it was to be taken literally. There are a lot of symbols in revelation that are not to be taken literally:
What about the star that was given the key to the abyss in Rev 9:1?
Revelation 9:1
“... I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.”
How can a star hold a key in its hand and open a gate in the abyss? Is this logical? This is obviously most likely symbolism for an angel comparing him to a star
(Revelation 9:2
“When he opened the Abyss,…”)
Also, it’s reveled that these people were a future generation, because the elder in heaven told John they:
Revelation 7:14
“…are they who have come out of the great tribulation (a future event); they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (the people who decided to follow God).”
This then was most likely symbolism of a future generation who symbolically stood with God (hence why they were in heaven) through all the torment. Even if this future generation does get to go to heaven, this does not mean all human souls go to heaven at death nor does it mean there are even some humans now in heaven.
The Final Conclusion
All these contradicting verses about humans going to heaven that seem to either tell all loyal humans souls go to this place at death /or at least some get to go once they are made immortal; can pretty much all be proven to be out of context of the original message of these verses. Like with the subject of Hell, when the context of these verses is considered along with the rest of what the Bible says about it all these verses harmonize perfectly with Jesus’s and Peter’s statements about humans no going to heaven at death:
While heaven is a very real place where God and his loyal Angels live, it does not seem Heaven is a human afterlife after all.
We find instead of heaven being the focus of the eternal reward for loyal/righteous humans, it will rather be the kingdom of Heaven (which can be proven to not be the third heaven itself but rather a kingdom/government coming from heaven) once Jesus comes to physically establish it on Earth, that will be the reward for loyal humans: like Hell, this is also a physical future reality.
the conclusion we can come to is Heaven is not a human afterlife either! So, we can ultimately conclude that the two traditional Christian afterlives of Heaven and hell are not really afterlives at all! That is, there is no real solid Biblical proof that human souls go to these places after death! But now we are left with a puzzling question: if there is no Heaven or Hell after death, then what does happen after death?
Sources:
[1]
Elijah is thought to have been taken away shortly after king Ahas and his son Ahaziah died (because it’s the next major event in 2 Kings):
1 Kings 22:37-40
“So, the king (Ahas) died and was brought to Samaria, and they buried him there…And Ahaziah his son succeeded him as king.”
(But shortly his own son, Ahaziah, died leaving no one left in their immediate family to become king)
2 Kings 1:17
“So he (Ahaziah) died, according to the word of the Lord that Elijah had spoken.”
So shortly after he was taken away, a new king named Joram begins to rule in the 2nd year co-reign of Jehoram son jehosaphat king of Judah:
2 Kings 1:17
“So he [Ahaziah] died, according to the word of the Lord that Elijah had spoken. Because Ahaziah had no son, Joram succeeded him as king in the second year of Jehoram son of Jehoshaphat king of Judah.”
It was also the 18th year reign of Jehoram’s father, Jehoshaphat:
2 Kings 3:1
“...Joram [Jehoram] son of Ahab became king of Israel in Samaria in the eighteenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and he reigned twelve years.”
Elijah was officially gone at this time because Elisha was the only known prophet to inherited Elijah’s office:
2 Kings 3:11
“But Jehoshaphat asked, ‘Is there no prophet of the Lord here, through whom we may inquire of the Lord?’ An officer of the king of Israel answered, ‘Elisha son of Shaphat is here. He used to pour water on the hands of Elijah. (used to be his servant: strongly hinting he was no longer a servant but was now the chief prophet)’.”
Five years later, Jehoshaphat died, and his son Jehoram began his sole reign:
2 Kings 8:16
“In the fifth year of Joram son of Ahab king of Israel, when Jehoshaphat was king of Judah, Jehoram son of Jehoshaphat began his reign as king of Judah. He was thirty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem eight years.”
2 Chronicles 21:1
“Then Jehoshaphat rested with his ancestors (he died) and was buried with them in the City of David. And Jehoram his son succeeded him as king.”
So, when his son began to get control of his rule (unknown amount of time) he began killing his own brothers along with others, as well as promoting worship of pagan Gods in Judah:
2 Chronicles 21:4-11
"When Jehoram established himself firmly over his father’s kingdom, he put all his brothers to the sword along with some of the officials of Israel. Jehoram was thirty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem eight years…. He did evil in the eyes of the Lord. He had also built high places (pagan alters) on the hills of Judah and had caused the people of Jerusalem to prostitute themselves and had led Judah astray.”
Since the text tells us Jehoram only ruled Judah for 8 years and he died after two years of being sick (he got sick right after getting Elijah’s letter) by a curse from God, Elijah must have sent his letter in the 6th year of his reign. Since he is assumed to have left around the time of the new king Joram and was definitely gone by the late rule of king Jehoshaphat and since Jehoram became king around the eight year of Joram’s reign. And then this new king ruled Judah for six more years, this means Elijah has most likely been gone for:
5+6=11 11 years now!
Even if this is not necessarily a correct calculation, Elijah was still have definitely been gone by the time Jehoram came to rule (after Jehoshaphat’s death).
[2]
[A] Merriam-Webister “Transfiguration”
Website:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transfiguration
[B] Matthew 17:2 greek interlinear, by Biblehub
Website:
https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/17-2.htm
[C] Strong’s Greek 3339. “Μεταμορφόω”(met-am-or-fo'-o) --to transform, by Biblehub
Website:
https://biblehub.com/greek/3339.htm
(Where the English metamorphosis comes from!)
[3]
[A] Matthew 17:9 Greek interlinear by Biblehub
Website:
https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/17-9.htm
[B] Strong’s Greek 3705. “ὅραμα”(hor'-am-ah)--that which is seen, by Biblehub
Website:
https://biblehub.com/greek/3705.htm
[C] Ὅραμα” word search by Biblehub
Website:
https://biblehub.com/greek/orama_3705.htm
[4]
Luke 23 Biblegateway New International Version (footnote)
Website:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+23&version=NIV
[5]
The years passed=2,000
(Standard) days in a year=365
so 2,000x365=726,350 days have passed (roughly)
[6]
[A] "In actual Greek texts from the era when Koine Greek was used as a day-to-day language, Greek was usually written with no punctuation. The words ran together completely, with no spacing or markup." from Answer to all “Did Greek Bible use punctuation?” April 28, 2021 by Joe Ford
Website:
https://answerstoall.com/language/did-greek-bible-use-punctuation/
[B] Luke 23:43 (pg 1347) in “Codex Vaticanus” written 300 A.D. from the Vatican digital library, Vatican city
Website:
https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Vat.gr.1209
[C] Luke 23:23-48 in “Codex Sinaiticus” written 300 A.D. in Siani from “The Codex Sinaiticus Project: see the manuscript” by The British Library, UK Leipzig University Library, Germany St Catherine's Monastery, and Sinai The National Library of Russia, St Petersburg
Website:
[7]
“ ’σημ€ρον’, to-day, this day. [When it comes after a verb, it belongs to that verb, unless it is separated from it and thrown into the next clause by the presence of oTi, (thai) e.rj. With oTi….Luke xxiii. 43. ‘καί εΓττεν αντω ο Ιτ^σον?, Αμήν σοι λε'γω * σημΐρον, μΐτ ίμον (.στ} ίν τω τταραδβι'σω.’ ‘And Jesus said to him, Verily, to thee I say this day, vfith. Me shalt thou be in the Paradise.’ The words to-day being made solemn and emphatic. Thus, in- stead of a rememhrance, Λνΐιβη Ho shall come in (tV, \ev. 22) His kingdom. He promises a presence then in a8sociation (μ^τά) Avith Himself. And this promise He makes on that vt-ry day when He was dying,…”
“today” pg 810-811 “A critical lexicon and concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, together with an index of Greek words, and several appendices;” by Rev. Bullinger Ethelbert William D.D. published by London, Longmans, Green & co. On 1895 A.D. from The Internet Archives (Princeton Theological Seminary Library)
Website:
https://archive.org/details/criticallexiconc00bull/page/810/mode/2up
[8]
Merriam-Webster “Martyr”
Website: